Apab’yan Tew, The Mayan Calendar and Everything has Life

My guest today is Apab’yan Tew, speaker, herbalist doctor, bones therapist, auxiliary midwife, writer, researcher, musician and ceremonial dancer and singer currently practicing in the highlands of Central Mexico, Chiapas and Guatemala. He is the author of The Birth of a Universe: The Maya science of Pregnancy.
Apab’yan spent 19 years becoming a spiritual guide with one female and one male teacher learning his craft experientially. This education was exhaustive, arduous and offered only to certain individuals chosen from within an indigenous community. His two teachers were very different. About his woman teacher he says, “for her I was above all an assistant, for him his spiritual son.”
We discuss some of the foundational ideas of the Mayan way of seeing the world. Two of these, I find myself in total alignment with: Everything is connected and Everything belongs to a system. The third, Everything has life not only what we call human or biological but also what is not visible as well as the solids without apparent movement. Apab’yan 
explains that everything also has a way of thinking and a form of communication or dialogue. If I understood him correctly, everything has consciousness.
The Maya actually have three calendars. The first is the sacred calendar, or Tzolk'in, which lasts 260 days and then starts over again, just as our 365-day calendar refreshes once it hits Dec. 31. This calendar is important for scheduling religious ceremonies and predicting the personality of a child.
The second calendar is the Haab', or secular calendar, which lasts 365 days but does not account for the extra quarter-day it takes the Earth to revolve around the sun. 
The final calendar is the Long Count Calendar in which each b'ak'tun is 144,000 days long, or a little less than 400 years. To the ancient Maya, 13 b'ak'tuns represented a full cycle of creation. The Maya had several rarely used units that were even larger than b'ak'tuns, giving them the capacity to count millions of years into the future.
 In the Maya highlands of Guatemala, parents come to visit a guide or shaman traditionally a few days after their baby was born. The guide would provide, a reading based on the sacred calendar. 
 What day was your child born?  is the first question and from the answer the calculation is done. Of course there are many other questions about conception, pregnancy and birth quite similar to what a good obstetrician, midwife or doula would ask in the West.
I gave Apab’yan my birth date and in a few minutes he told me I was "8 Monkey" and then proceeded to explain what that implied in terms of my character and personality. Since it was all pretty positive, I would say he was right on.
My next guest  will be Dr. Gordana Dodig, Professor of Computer Science and Professor of Interaction Design at  Mälardalen University, Sweden, She will discuss with me cognition as a driver of evolution and evolution as a driver of cognition in living organisms, cells as information-processing agents and many other related subjects. I hope you will join me.

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https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/contributors/thomas-r-verny-md

Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS
calendar, understand, life, moment, woman, case, person, book, elements, knowledge, tracking, patterns, nature, calculate, monkey, father, hold, strong, teacher
SPEAKERS
Speaker 2 (90%), Speaker 1 (10%) 
1
Speaker 1
0:03
Hello, this is Pushing Boundaries, a podcast about pioneering research, breakthrough discoveries and unconventional ideas. I'm your host, Dr. Thomas R. Verny. My guest today is Apab’yan Tew, do I  pronounce that correctly?

0:24
In Maya, it will be, tabian.
1
Speaker 1
0:27
Okay, Got it. Apab’yan Tew is a speaker, herbalist. bones therapist, auxilary, midwife, writer, researcher, musician, and ceremonial dancer and singer, currently practicing in the highlands of central Mexico,  Chiapas and Guatemala. He is the author of The Birth of a Universe: The Maya science of Pregnancy which he very kindly sent to me, and I have read most of it. Welcome.. You started telling me how you got in touch with me? Why don't you start there?
2
Speaker 2
1:18
Well, yes. First of all, thank you very much for the invitation for the podcast. Thank you very much, also to answer the connection that my wife made with you, my beloved wife, Egle, who is this string strong element in this moment to help me to assist and to also collaborate and do all this industry labor of understanding, researching, putting things in order, and also doing her own importation of ideas for to make these new thing of talking about an ancient science to come to, to everybody. Thank you very much. And for me, it's a pleasure to meet you because, and I'm going to show us also, I got this book. And this book belongs to a moment in my life in which I,  still weren't doing what I'm doing in this moment, in a fully let's say, way. I got your book here in Mexico City as a lending of a friend. Because I was surprised of beauty peculiar phenomena that I saw in her family. In,  in my friend's family, there were some some some of some of the brothers had kids. But he was something that was always getting me very interested because she was a very shy person, as a mother, she was always a very shy, silent person. Or he had three kids under three kids were incredibly strong, incredibly healthy, incredibly active. And let's say explosive in ideas and creative. These kids that instead of calling the instead of watching the TV or holding the phone, they will building a staff on opening books and ice and I asked him one day, what did you do? What what what, what happened, that you get that makes you get so different from other kids that I have seen? And she she lent me the book, she says, I read this book. And it was precisely la vida skeletally, Mignon Samosir, the secret life of the unborn child. And then I've read your book, and it costs me a lot, give give me a lot of ideas and insights. Bye. But in those days, I was not like in the idea of having kids or do or even beginning what I'm doing now. 
Then, bye let's say by general culture for us to say something I hold on these insights and ideas but let it all by things regarding my my work. I began to see the value in the value of these knowledge in a different ways girls, I began to be the axial person that was helping a midwife. Well, then I'm going to jump back. When when, what I do know is that I am what in my culture we call the spiritual guide. The spiritual guide is the one that holds the keeps this the the knowledge of the ancient and ancient calendar Mayan calendar that I will say is based on the reasons of the patterns of light and obscurity, the sun, the moon, the stars, the poles of the Earth, Isa is calendar, a visa callback whose foundation is astronomical, but we are also really landed in the pulse of the Earth, mostly because we still produce our own food, then we have to be tracking and keeping or listening to the elements surrounding us. The spiritual guide holds that knowledge and at the same time, we are trained sometimes because it's your inner interest sometimes because as in my case, some things boosts you to do something. And we have also what is considered to be the healer, the herbalist, the bone, the bone, the person that heals problems with the bones and muscles. And, and what are the spiritual guide has a lot of different variations of expressions. I as any other average Maya person who enters into this world, I went into a barrier Street and let's say hurdles, training us in us as as to achieve all these are to achieve to keep that to maintain and to understand everything that has been given during centuries, maybe even Lamia of practices,
1
Speaker 1
6:50
hold it for a second. Can you tell us a little bit more about those 19 years that you spent training
2
Speaker 2
7:00
in the basic form of training it always untangles nine, nine months and in or the depending on the teacher and on on the strength of the apprentice sometimes is also three cycles of the of the of beans, which it means three per nine, deeper nine months, then then we are more or less a couple of years in training. And later on is the practice and the experience. In that sense, I have more than more than 19 I have in this case with will be 26 to 27 years of practice those training in tangles. Understanding is a very complex, you need to know mountains, valleys, you have to go to nature, you track the bathrooms of the stars, you are told how to read the clouds for to do the calculations of the rain, for example, observations of patterns of animals as to track how they also are behaving according to the weather, for example, how to understand the positions of the startups for to calculate also the quantity of rain, therefore to prepare the seed, but at the same time, it's the observation of nature, the observation of patterns of behavior in society, as calm as a community, but also to understand the human being the personality, the the character, the impulses, and an entangled a lot of work, you're working with your teacher, you are you, you are being guided. And then you began to receive little by little on the knowledge this is not like having classes, this is a potential person to person way of understanding and you began to acquire, like, what it what it will say the skills and then the experience by also looking at your teacher doing here his own work. In my case, I was fortunate because I was first guided by by a ceremonial speaker, a poet, a man. But also later on, I was guided by a woman who was the most important a midwife. And I had the beautiful experience of being trained by both sides, the feminine and the masculine. And I could see how, although it is the same knowledge, there's a different perspective. And that's why I considered that to be of a high value. They were my mentors, my teachers from my guides, and I will say in this moment that whenever I'm presenting this knowledge in reality, well I am the one that is telling but this is not mine. 
It was our knowledge in the Mayan way of console talking about society and the common wealth of everybody, including the knowledge, the preservation of knowledge, this is cos this is the Maya Qin lineage from the highlands of Guatemala, specifically in my town, no ha, who is going to lay that the spirit of the water. thing, we are the spiritual guides with this training and with this experience, and with this highly, let's say, attach to the, to the, to the preservation in criminal waste of a knowledge and, well, the preservation. The preservation and also the improving of the knowledge, the tradition, the extra, the new research, because we're not isolated in the mountains, were looking at what is happening in prison time in different ways.
And it's not only as I said, the preservation on all of the the fusion, the understanding what was given, then this, this is a long process of understanding and the most important after your do begin to practice is what when the teacher says, well, now God you alone, you have to go to have to, to know by your own ways, in your own steps, what is this knowledge? Later on, we're told the experience is the most important part. The achievement is hard to use, but I will say that experience is the most important part.
1
Speaker 1
11:40
So you say about the woman who was teaching you that for her, I was above all an assistant for him his spiritual son, can you say? Can you say a little bit more about that?
2
Speaker 2
11:57
Well, what happens is that the spiritual guy, the one that leads you, the one that is going to that the one that also I can be said like that they want to choose you to teach is also a spiritual father immediately, even what the we talk. For example, when we say nun, that it means mother and dad, that it means father, when you enter into into the hardwoods training moment, he automatically or she automatically is they tend to be your mother and your father, they are your spiritual fathers, they are the ones that be joined the majority of mom and dad, they are the ones that by your Spirit, or by by nature, by consciousness, they are going to guide for my teacher. The May that take that the word Riang was charged the relationship a was in a sense, like he adopted me, he offered me always to be in the house. He was very strong, to present me into with authorities. And he was like he was my apprentice and I was shaking. They he was a hippie took the form of fantasy of the spiritual father of a father. For my teacher, it was an assistant for the woman. And the difference in this case is not that she wasn't that loving, or that or under the spirit of writing. 
What happens is that traditionally, the role of a midwife does is not for men. In my society, the midwife is always a woman. And I will say this is due to the procedures of messaging and being tracking what happens in the body of a woman. But my case was very unique in that sense. That's why in the book, I make a remark that he took a little bit more over that, but she was no less in reality. What was the challenge in those years of my training that is just barely in the end of the last century, and the beginning of the new one is that I was going to be always close to her. And it was going to be in the town such a peculiarity to see that a man was beginning to enter into that. For me, it was a privilege and by the way, I have to be honest, in one sense, originally, I didn't want to like to enter into this knowing that by gender there are differentiations in what you can do and what are your possibilities. But I was living with her a little by little, you know, curiosity, getting getting the BS of trying to understand what is happening and by the way 
What I'm what am I going to be talking later? What is the magnificent, brilliant way of understanding a knowledge and behavior unhealthiness or unhealthy or illness? What a beautiful is to understand that with a frame with a with a with this fantastic calendar which holds the frame of the understanding of nature of the days. And and as the saying says I will curiosity kills the cat, well, if I enter because it was amazing to see those beautiful people. As a resume, I would say yes, in the book, I'm seeing that but my woman teacher was no less, maybe even more. But just because of these little facts, that the man is not usually the midwife. I made a little change in their
calendar.

Let's talk about the calendar, which seems to be so very important, right? Yes. So I understand that. Generally, you use a 20 counting system like it's based on 20 instead of hours, which is 100.
2
Speaker 2
16:13
Yeah, well, there are different ways there's a basic frame of 20 nominal days with a tolls that speak about elements of nature's thunder as the Yawar as evil. And there are 13 numbers, which also helps for mathematical calculations. Anyways, even though they provide a calendar, it's also an instrument to schedule time to calculate and to do activities, right to scheduled activities. But beyond that, this is a calendar based on astronomical elements. Then when we combine 2013, we have 2016, which among some other things, is also the calculation of Venus positions, Venus manifestations, us, for example, the morning light, it also helps us to understand the pulses of the moon, because we can also calculate the moon by those numbers, is also the growing of the Highland resistant to cold corn, some species. 
And in this case, direct directly is the way to calculate or to track and to make the connections of everything that have said, Venus, the moon, the pulses of nature and the earth to understand the growing of a human being is the average frame to understand creation, creation of the thing. That's why the calendar is so important, isn't nine months 2020 13 2060 to 200 days and 60 days to do the basic frame of the story. So you also hold a solar calendar, but in this case, the solar Canada, calendar will is called Maserati, but it's a civil solar year helps more for that for civil or for society activities, but what we call the sacred or what we call the Venus calendar, the human being calendar, the Highland scoring calendar, the lunar moon, astronomical calendar is the word that we use for the purposes of understanding that
1
Speaker 1
18:43
that is 200 days. Yeah. The sacred calendar, that's all kin is act as 260 days. Right, exactly. Okay. And then the other calendar is the secular calendar, the hub. Exactly, which is 365 days. Exactly. Okay. But you are, of course, working much more with the sacred calendar that Tolkien right, a sack. Okay. So, then what how does that calendar relate to pregnancy?
2
Speaker 2
19:24
Well, here it is. Here is my point. Thank you very much for asking that question. I will make just a little, a little, a little observation when I began. And this is not common. But when I began to practice my ceremonies, or when I began to track stars, when I began to understand things as for example, when a gust of wind or how a gust of wind is related with the behavior of birds and to understand the clouds and therefore rain or no training or how the 40 mounting unfolds different manifestations of nature. I was attracted to understand that the track with this Sulkin or child, if we call it child, in my language in my area. 
And I was already meaning that Esther how I began to calculate, you know, when someone told you something is one thing, but when you began to understand, well, I was already with that fascination. And with that curiosity, when, by some events my life I was taking into, let's say, additional training by a woman who was the only the midwife my teacher and ear, Katelyn Killeen. So, who ended I began to see her practicing. In the beginning, it was like a shy approach. But it was very clever to see not only that I could learn but also to begin to put me into action. I when I met her I was already a bone healer, I already the messages, or I already practice what can be some equivalence to chiropractic things. But in this case, it's a little bit different. Then she saw that I knew. And sometimes she and she began to ask me things like, Can you do a message for the hips of this woman, she's in pain, she's pregnant, be soft, for example. Or sometimes she was like, this woman has cramps in the in the in the muscles, can you do a message and I become people little by little began to be interested in looking at me. But I have been, as I said, experience, right? 
I have been practicing bone healing since  I was nine years old by another factors. But what I'm seeing is the higher range, I already began to be applied that part of the knowledge. And then going back a little bit of what I'd say, the curiosity began to make me see things that were peculiar. For example, and I'm going to say something that is very easy to see. It was not the same situation if the baby was expected, that if the baby was unexpected, I began to see more repercussions in the woman's body in the woman's bones, or in the way of how a woman recover from illness. If she was emotionally supported in the family, and if she was not, I will add one ingredient in my town, there's a load of migration of the natives from four to go to the USA. It is not unusual, that a woman gets pregnant and the father for the urgency of providing has a necessity to go to the USA, then it is also not that much initial to see that a pregnant woman, a gentle woman is alone in the house with their father in distance. I began to notice that for the woman with who were alone, even with only because sometimes they send money sometimes they disappear also. 
But when woman was supported in the house, when the father was there, there was more stability than when the father was not and when she has to close. And she was there's problems even reaction for being pregnant and alone and stuff like that. Being my being my task two, to soften to prepare to be into, as I said, like like messaging here and there crimes, I began to see the patterns of the scheme the eyes, because there's a lot of things that you can read in the body of a woman during pregnancy. And then after looking at recognizable patterns, when, when when the father was when the father it was not even when the father was and then subdivisions when the father is supportive and when the father is not supportive. Then I began to see the differences between the first child and the last child or the medium child, I began to see patterns in how the body began to behave and how, what we can call the psychological repetition of that. But then, one day, bye, bye bye, fabulous insight I began to see and connect what I have previously said. I understood so much so I began to understood that the calendar 
By tracking conditions that I will call mathematical also weather conditions or by looking at the pulse of the year had a relationship with those moments with woman. And then I began to see that the days of the Mayan calendar and also defining ways of what I can call creation. Then, for example, and to say something for a particular day of the Mayan calendar is going to correspond the conditioning which the Father is not present. And I began to see that somebody finishes that we hold for tracking of time, could also be applied to understand masculinity, femininity, the presence of the Father, the absence of the Father, the more the trouble Mother, take comfortable mother. In I began to notice that, for any every F for every day, or day of the Mayan calendar, there was a condition that was on, there was a condition that can explain how pregnancy is given. 
And they was often fascinated about beginning to do the order to calculate in the other sense to calculate by doing prediction of patterns of behavior. Then in another state, I sold that, according of how the model is conceiving, and how the atmosphere is, I began to notice the connection with the behaviors and patterns of way of personality of babies. As to say one thing, if a mother, for any reason is to travel too anxious, during any given moment, let's say a first child, or young woman, in this case or my town. With no experience, facing the first time, let's say drove by son situation is not difficult to see that the kid is in the case a little bit more, has some sort of illness LED on the baby to present patterns of some sort of recurrent anxiousness to it began to do to trace all the all the connections as to arrive then to our conclusion that the Mayan calendar in its own frame, which is nature and astronomical based, also can serve to calculate and to understand the procedures, the elements, the conditions, the atmospheres of the human creation. In that was the beginning of, of a lifetime of enjoy, and also the exploration of a lifetime of in my life, it is fascinating to see that the date of birth can give us clues to understand the birth and the conditions of creation of a human being. By knowing that we can calculate, we can predict we can understand the nature of the quality of the decision making of a person, which is very interesting.
1
Speaker 1
28:33
You're a great speaker, I have to stop you once in a while. Could you give a nice? Could you would you? Could you explain that a little bit? Could you give an example? For example, take my birth date, January 26 1936. How could could you do something about that? Could you could you explain something on the basis of that day?
2
Speaker 2
29:00
Of course, we first of all, when a person gave us the the birthday in the let's say in the Western calendar, they could dump already in use with what we do is to use our books, our schemes to my beloved wife is helping which they generally which they did you said January, January 26 2690 36.

29:35
Right.
2
Speaker 2
29:37
When a person gives it their birthday in the Western way, what we do, what we used to do was to go to books, we hold books by manuscript books to track the time now due to an thanks to the phenomenon of the 2012 Fake prophecies. So many mathematicians, programmers, the calculations are now we can hold the Cellular phone, then we Mayans were in technology also, we know the calculations now we with the will is a sheep wait and breathing and just a moment take your time
2
Speaker 2
30:29
with oh, well let me finish then when we do that we do the calculation to do the, the to to understand the Mayan day in the church, or that Tolkein in the sacred calendar. Now I'm going to now for the people that is listening to us in this moment is happening something very interesting Doctor Bernie's birthday, which is worse a bit bad in our language and also corresponds to in that also that Teresa sacred day that also corresponds to the beginning of the or the rainy season or the celebration of time is the day of the salon is a sacred day of the celebration of the Mayan calendar, usually is considered the most important day of the Mayan calendar. 
We Mayans we don't believe that time has a beginning or an end, we always consider the time to be flowing. There's no beginning point or ending point in our calendar, there's nothing like first of January or 31 of December we flow we continues. Then, for starting a calendar we don't have the number one position we hold the eighth which is going to be understood as the rainy season of tracking of time. Works on the backs eight monkey, the number is eight. And the name is Monkey eight monkey is the day in which we celebrate the tracking of time is the most important day of the Mayan calendar. And it happens that is your birthday.
2
Speaker 2
32:30
Sacred synchronicity has happened in this moment. Now, what I can read in here, a person is giving me is entering into my into my house and he's giving me a birthday and the baby is eight months. First of all, I know for sure that in the house, their son, a strong mother. And there's also a father that is no less. But it still I do know that the model hold more control over conditions of pregnancy than what the Father was doing. That it means for purposes of understanding an eighth monkey person, I will say that the masculine part and the feminine part, are strong, differentially from what can happen when the mother is weak. And the father is absent when the mother is strong, but the father is absent, which can be different. To think that both were weak or indifferent to pregnancy, or when were when both were strong to have vain. In this case, eight monkey I'm already knowing that the mother had a good control over pregnancy, I already know that it means that for the purposes of what I can see the personality of this baby that is introduced to me, that baby is going to be hard work. That baby is going to be an entrepreneur in ideas, that baby is going to be a strong, stubborn and resistant, resistant, I'm saying in the physical way of not not to be ill everybody can be ill, but to overcome and to resist and to come back with a strength that is a person that is going to hold an a strong personality or not also an external personality or defying personality. 
Eight monkey in tangles. In this case, I'm going to apply gender to the day in tangles. His own strength as a person that as the monkey is going to be a leader is a person that is going to be a strong inclination to ideas of art literature moronically native inclination towards us to say something and the developing of ideas cause for us, the monkey ate monkey by linguistic replication, so Have linguistic connections in our language is called bats. But we can also pronunciate bats, almost the same, but these other bats means threa. Then the person that is born on that day is also a person that interconnect ideas that interconnect threads of thoughts is the person that make it connect all the dots is, is, in a sense, the embroidery of a canvas is the person that the or the creation of a canvas is the person that can interconnect ache monkey, in this sense, explains the retransmission of a strength of a strong model or a model with strong physical possibilities also to the baby, the baby tends to be a strong, even in some cases, athletes. But also is a personality, that by threads by connecting and by making notes they create. 
Also, and I'm going to use the poetic way to say is the canvas of knowledge, which is an external personality. Now, what I can say in this moment is that at this moment, this is, let's say a broad explanation. But you have to take into account what I'm what I'm on, I am not mentioning, this isn't a strong interconnection a strong person with a with a strong model, but not less the further but you just can imagine all the other possibilities when as I said, What and this is a desire baby, by the way, when that entangles that  is done that is a baby is always connected with a baby or with a person that has a motorist strong self confidence, a person that holds more integrity, and even more resistance, if the person adventures into new rails. That is something very specific to the monkey, the monkeys are very stubborn. The monkeys are those ones that are not going to stop. And if you have a friend with that you can count with a strong and a strong friend. This is what I will say in this moment like in a process.
1
Speaker 1
37:42
Very interesting. So there are there are lots of things in your book that I totally agree with. One of them is that you write that in the section on intercourse, you say and I totally agree with you that there is a relationship between feminine pleasure and the holistic health of a baby regardless of sex. There is a direct and statistically verifiable relationship between disease resistance and emotional stability. So in the Mayan culture, would you be comfortable asking a woman whether she enjoyed intercourse? Would that be something that you will be comfortable asking?
2
Speaker 2
38:32
Well, first, first of all, I will say yes, after successfully being delivering babies, and this and this implies that I have to tell you a little bit more about my teacher that ear was such a strong woman was such a knowledgeable woman, but she was also a person that wanted me to know because I was interested. And yes, is not usual for them for men to be told to to touch a woman sport body, they lay the legs, the waist, the hips are to do examinations, right. But she always found the way through to do she was when they like called me how many and I was a stay here in the room. And they were like oh, and I was like with close eyes, right? But little by little give me the call. They're like, do this give me the Sixers or whichever to task. 
Then little by little the woman began to be to be getting accustomed to see that they could be the son of an ear hookah holding an ear. Tell eco village Nana telling him and what happened was that later on, I began but then more and more and more and to enter into the into, into, into into practice more about what was this until the moment right when they received my baby. And then another and then another thing, it was finally a moment in which not only by what was already working on an ear build, but also what it was beginning to be told that warm began to be in confidence with that. But there's another factor that has to be taken into account. My town is not a big city is what we can consider a small town. And then we know mostly everybody. Not necessarily personnel as to as to know a lot of details. But we know we know each other people. 
My wife, who is not from Guatemala, the last time that we travel, she saw everybody's Hi up. Yeah. Hi, Pam. Yeah, hi, Abby, and people receive me hugs me. And some of the babies that I received already have their own babies, and they were like, I wish you were here to see my baby and stuff like that. But then, they also what I, by knowing the people in town, I will know the personalities of the fathers. I will also know he didn't there that the father was such a person this and that. We are so new, the the some of the personalities of the fathers, then I call began to not to necessarily ask or did you have that pleasure, but mostly, what the direction of the questions were about? Like, Well, do you know this man, right? Was he treating you? Well? We are and the answer is well, no, you know, these his he drinks a lot of whatever. 
And a little by little by confidence, I can be done with the Can I ask you a question was DISA six who creation of a baby because it is important for me to know. I began to with certain people to whom I hold more confidence to whom I know more details about the relationships, the connections, the way you see them in the street. I couldn't make the interconnections. And with some of them I began to ask later on when when things began to be also cleared for the people, some of the some of the woman were also telling me directly, oh, it was a good situation. You know, he's very young, he's always driving by sex. And we had we have this night, but later on, he departed from the house, and things like that. Later on, but years later, I began to do this systematic study sticky ways of making questions on purpose, but first, I have to build the glory and the fame of being good to receive face, then people began to understood that part.
1
Speaker 1
43:21
Okay, okay. So there are a lot of things that you say that are very, very interesting. And I totally agree with what in, in the chapter on foundations talked about everything is connected. Everything belongs to a system. And then you say everything has a life and that I'm interested in because, well, I just don't know whether everything has life. So how is it that you can say everything is life not only what we call human or biological, but also what is not visible, as well as the solids without apparent movement? So can you talk more about that?
2
Speaker 2
44:14
Yes, first of all, in that case, I have to tell you that there has been efforts and it's and in this case, I'm going to do someone my my my teacher, the other teacher, the male, that take that we have been well here started now I am continuing this the systematic study of linguistics to understand to understand what beyond the influence of a Spanish language is to understand the proper ways of Maya thinking. Then one of the words that we're always diving and floating or sinking and sometimes making a troll was the work soles, which came with the friars, and with the influences of the missionaries coming from Europe, and that enter into ceremonial language and that enter also for to understand processes of different dimensions of human actions. 
Life after they are what is life, or what is blah, blah, blah, but this the word soul was already there. My teacher by going into the linguistic proper million ways, took out the word soul. And he asked me that we were not going to apply soul anymore. For the purposes of understanding human behavior and patterns of impulses and character. We were going to use the word the Maya, the Maya quartz, foretold for life, for the symbols for character, and so on. Taking out soul was also taking out what is more or less what what we can call the Judeo Christian or Abrahamic sense of having a life inherited by God, and to improve or whatever the scheme is, I'm not going to go deep into that, but by taking so we, in my school, hold the proper ways to speak about what we consider life. One of the words is cush law, or Polish law chic, that also means a way, an in, or a process that is directed from the heart, as the heart as the, let's say, the the, the element that holds life, the heart as the blood, the heart as the pumping life and a way of thinking corporately, and to do the terminations not only with the brain, but with the body, both. 
And another word that we use now is Catholic or Catholic, which defines life, as when you perceive something, let's say irradiating something that you can perceive incense, in that way, Coachella, she can be understood as consciousness. As such, instead of spirit instead of nature instead of soul. And then we might ask, by doing this linguistic, let's say observation, we talk that everything contains, by that means, not necessarily by using soul, but yes, consciousness, everything holds a nature where I'm going to use nature, everything holds us for not to use nature in this way, everything holds a way of alive. We have a consciousness and it has an notice not necessarily what we can, we can call organic as, for example, is not the same thing to read the fall in the mountain, for example, as when it's winter, and when is the moment of raining. We so the elements of nature moving in, its in their own rhythms in their own pulses, and it's important to note predict, is important. That's why I talk about about this as a science is important to know how the tracking can help you to, to predict to understand or to predict the nature of something. 
And then in the Maya ways of understanding, everything is alive, not because and is not related to biological life, but it is related to the way in which we consciously and that consciously or the way in which certain ways of activity can rebuild us a way of a thought or a way of development, our way of performance, and a predictable and patterns according and regarding to different atmosphere as different formulas. And, for example, one thing there's a beautiful example when we talk about, which is the relationship between the ants, ants and the rain and why those the spiritual guide is going to see in the behavior of ants before preparing the scene. 
Everybody speculates and you can have different opinion Yes, but at the end, the point is that if the answer before the rainy season for a scarcity files and they are like dispersed, then there's going to be a load of they somehow I'm going to apply the board somehow know something. But if they aren't, these are specific ways of remnants from the highlands, are making a strong lines and there's an abundance of ants then there's not going to be rain patterns in everything interconnect the comprehension of the poles of the earth. 
And we, as part of the air can read life in the way nature behaves, I'm going to say behave also, although I'm applying human ways of understanding personality or activities, we can also use it in a way we like we can take it off also. But by understanding that you saw the interconnection, you saw the interconnection of a very dark cloud with a scarcity of ants the way and the spider will build an spider with the ways in which the roasters, for example, began to sing in the mornings, and you can see humility, and everything is interconnected. In that sense, you can feel how everything has suppose and later on, you can begin to do your own predictions or your own if not predictions calculations.
1
Speaker 1
51:38
I totally agree, I totally agree. But coming back to life with a grain of sand have life
2
Speaker 2
51:46
not necessarily what we do in that way is that depending depending on what is the context of any given things, some that will reveal a participation or what that will reveal our way of, of expression. But what I'm saying no, sadly, is because not every grain of sand is going to help us something old is going to and it's always going to be understood as something in a broad sense, I will say yes, but I will make the little remark that the context and the atmosphere in which something enters into participation is an important part. 
But yes, with this emphasis, we always have to look at the context. Because for example, a thunderstorm is a combination of of different ways of consciousness, let's say in the earth, we believe the Earth to be alive and and a gust of wind accompanying with sun, then it has an explanation, and then the repercussions are different. That is stepping onto sand in the beach. Yes, everything is alive, but we have to take into account what is that atmosphere in that element that we are seeing? For example, another thing like minerals, or squirts, for example, we consider fully, fully fully fully alive in a way that is not the human being the human way. What I mentioned in the book is that for us Mayans, the waste of the human processing of information is not the element of measurement to understand the order or order. Mountains, rivers, the way in which the water is behaving and everything is in manifestation holds life. Yes. But to be king, you have to say where is that? How it is in the atmosphere? Or what is the atmosphere in their in their inaction.

54:01
May I ask you how old you are?
2
Speaker 2
54:04
I'm 50 years old, years old. Okay.
1
Speaker 1
54:08
So in these 50 years, what's the what's the most important thing you have learned about life?
2
Speaker 2
54:20
Amazing wisdom. I'm going to tell you the truth. And to be honest, in this moment, I will say that there's not the more important there for the experience that I have been holding. I will say that and also by my own experience of life, I will say that in my case, there is no something like the most important because for example in during different my life and different things I have been helped. I have I know what I will say that for the founder. There are different things I will not consider that without was that in different different times of my life I have been considering different elements as to be the most important. Now I think that independently of what the lessons of life are one thing that is always going to be the agglutination element is EGR is, by the way, love, loving, love, as when you said, the different elements of understanding, love of life, passion for life. In this, for example, in this moment, that's why I was I was trying to not to convince the Christian, 
I love my wife, I love the life we're living together in this moment, this is the most important, but it's but that is not necessarily the most important. That's why I don't put the hierarchy of which is the most, I would say in this moment, this is the what we what we admire, we consider to be the balance, when, when when, when both of us are working together on balance and doing a balance of her femininity, my masculinity, my own femininity, our own masculinity, and we both togethers, balance and look for an equilibrium that that makes us also going to the front. But yes, that is in this present time i but in a broad sense, what what what every element of what has been my experiences, I will say for the love and passion for what you do what you love, what you say the power of the word loving life, the India India in December I so Matheny, one of my cases have been a little elderly woman who I attended. And I'm not going to be to make the long history but she recovered after having very toxic cancer in the in the in the bluff. And an ID my surgeon my work my ceremonial work if you will consider like that. And she improved in only one week from being completely lying down in a bed to begin to cook herself and to attend even social events. People began to ask me, what did you do? What was that amazing that you did? Because they saw me messaging in what I will say in this moment is telling lymphatic message improving for to boost the circulatory system I be managed for relaxing the muscles I did several things. But people were asking me No, but that is a practice that is the that is the that is the that is what is the technicality of what you did. But in reality what you did, and I was okay, if you're thinking that I make spells no. I felt compassion and love for this woman. 
I consider for the beginning of the moment in which she says yes, you can proceed. And in the moment in which I asked her to take out the socks because I was going to begin with the legs when with the feet. I know in that moment I see a full life of a person, an elderly person who leaves who knows how many things she has to confront how many things she has to deal with, how many times she looks in life, how many times she was bright, happy. And in reality, they call the recollection of knowledge and everything of the techniques or whatever it is they serve. 
But in the moment of action, I will say for to answer them and for to judge it is in my aim in that case and for this specific example is yes. I was loving that woman and I was loving everything that entangles a full life. And also in this case, that she already was sure that she was about to die and in in in an amazing shift. She was like I'm hungry. Give me food. I'm going to attend that party, please call the hair the hair restaurant. I want a new haircut. And I knew and I were what I can say is that yes. I was in the tradition alive of a life that was not mine. Still is a human beautiful being and and in that sense once again. Yes Is love but it depends how we're in the atmosphere. See which you do develop, according to that?
1
Speaker 1
1:00:06
Well, thank you, we'll have to, we'll have to stop there. I would love to do this again, you have so much to say. And it's so interesting. And it's coming from a very different point of view to what we are used to here in the West. So I just really would like to if it's okay with you to revisit this and get together in a couple of months again, would that be okay?
That is perfectly okay. And I know that it's very different from Western appreciation, because, first of all, I as a citizen of the Mexico, or as a person, who originally was born in a big city, I know, what is the western view. And I have to go into the processes in IT processes to enter and to and to acquire and later on being leaving with both system systems of understanding. And then I enter deep into the mire ancient ways of understanding human nature in a different way. Right.

Thank you. We have to stop there. Let me just say that my next guest is going to be Dr. Gordana Dodig, Professor of Computer Science and Professor of Interaction Design at the Mälardalen University in Sweden. She will discuss with me cognition as a driver of evolution and evolution as a driver of cognition. So, tune in if you liked this program. So,  thanks again and I shall definitely contact you again. Thank you and good luck in all your future adventures. Take care.
Thank you very much, Doctor.