Helane Wahbeh ND MCR, The Science of Channeling

My guest today is Helane Wahbeh ND MCR,  director of research at the Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS)—a nonprofit parapsychological research institute cofounded by astronaut Edgar Mitchel. Author of  Free To Be Me: A Journey of Transformation through Generational Healing, 2015 and The Science of Channeling: Why You Should Trust Your Intuition and Embrace the Force That Connects Us All, 2022.

Helane’s first book offers the reader a remarkable window into the lives of five generations of women in Palestine starting with her great-great grandmother in the early 1800’s. What she learned about herself doing research and writing this book is the ability to overcome the ancestral patterns around being silent, powerless victim, et cetera. So, the story really is one of transformation, of empowerment of subsequent generations to continue their powerful, unique and beautiful voice in the world. And not just women, but also men because women raise men, they raise boys, and so if we can empower the masculine and the feminine side of young boys, they become more well-rounded and compassionate and can balance the nurturing aspects of themselves along with the action,  the traditional male archetypes.
Attending a meeting at the Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS) changed the trajectory of her life. She was amazed at the courage of the participants to ask  esoteric research questions, to do rigorous research on these trailblazing topics, if you will, and got excited to join the team. That triggered a number of synchronistic events for Helane to eventually start working at IONS first as a consultant, and then scientist and now director. So that gave her permission to think about and explore the topics of channeling.
Channeling, in a very broad way, is the capacity that all humans have to access information and energy that's not limited by our conventional notions of time or space. It is beyond our five senses, and it can appear expressive, or receptive. And these experiences are quite varied. They exist on a spectrum from intuitive gut hunches to dreams that come true, or getting mental impressions from someone else's mind in the middle of doing something totally different. So there's quite a variety of what we call channeling.
The IONS Helane and her team have done quite a bit of work to develop an inventory that helps people evaluate  their own, what they call noetic signature. it is unique. Each person has their own unique expression of channeling. Studying  data from thousands of people  they found 12 different characteristics that seem to show up significantly. People can go to IONS website (https://noetic.org/ ) and  take this inventory and discover how channeling shows up for them in their life. And if they're interested, explore that, and see if they can nurture the ones that they're strong in, or even the ones that they aren't strong in and see how it can be used to support them in their daily life.
Best advice Helane ever got? Think it was about this path, this inward path. To not look outside myself for the truth for me.
Thank you, Helane. I enjoyed our conversation and now I am ready to explore my channeling abilities. My guest next week will be Dr. Natalie Dyer, PhD,  who is a Research Scientist with Connor Whole Health at University Hospitals and President of the Center for Reiki Research. Natalie is also an energy medicine practitioner. We shall discuss the benefits of Reiki on physical and psychological health and understanding and addressing mental

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Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS
channeling, life, research, studies,  experience, phenomenon, noetic sciences, world, 
information, intention, receptive, IONS.

This is Pushing Boundaries, a podcast about Pioneering Research, Breakthrough Discoveries and Unconventional Ideas. I am your host Dr. Thomas R Verny. 

My guest today is Helane Wahbeh ND MCR,  director of research at the Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS)—a nonprofit parapsychological research institute cofounded by astronaut Edgar Mitchel. Author of  Free To Be Me: A Journey of Transformation through Generational Healing, 2015 and The Science of Channeling: Why You Should Trust Your Intuition and Embrace the Force That Connects Us All, 2021o.

Welcome Helane.
Your first book offers the reader a remarkable window into the lives of five generations of women in Palestine starting with your great-great grandmother in the early 1800’s. What did you learn about yourself doing research and writing this book?


Thank you, Helane. I enjoyed our conversation and now I am ready to explore my channeling abilities. My guest next week will be Dr. Natalie Dyer, PhD, is a Research Scientist with Connor Whole Health at University Hospitals and President of the Center for Reiki Research. We shall discuss the benefits of Reiki on physical and psychological health. Natalie is also an energy medicine practitioner. Her passion is understanding and addressing mental and physical health from a psychospiritual perspective.
Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here with you today. Thank you. 
So your first book offers the reader a remarkable, remarkable window into the lives of five generations of women in Palestine, starting with your great, great grandmother in the early 1800s. Have I got that right? That's right. So what did you learn about yourself, doing this research and writing this book, this was a really wonderful joint project between my mother and the first half of the book is about our ancestors, and their story, particularly as women in that part of the world, and that culture and the experience of feeling that their voices were not heard, that they were not able to live to their full potential, and each mother kind of imprinted that
those boundaries on to the daughter. And so with my mother, she was the initiator, if you will, of the breaking of that pattern. And so we get to see her life story and how she began in this very prescribed victim, attitude, life, to engaging in a personal growth

2:42
journey in her 40s. And, you know, blossoming from there. And so we see her story, as a mother raising me. And then the second half of the book is about my story, my experience with her as my mother, again, seeing these constricting patterns, and how I then benefited from her personal growth and continued it even further. So, you know, as you see me here as Director of Research, my career, my personal life, etc, I have been able to overcome the ancestral patterns around being silent, powerless victim, et cetera. So the story really is one of transformation of empowerment, and this message so that we can empower subsequent generations to continue their powerful, unique and beautiful voice in the world. And not just women, but also men because women raise men, they raise boys, and so if we can empower the masculine and the feminine side of our young boys, they are so much more well- ounded and compassionate and can balance the nurturing aspects of themselves along with the action, you know, traditional male archetypes.

4:29
So, that's absolutely fascinating. What made it possible for your mother to

4:39
change

4:41
her lifelong, well, inherited pattern of behaving what made it possible for her to think differently?

4:52
Yes, so they emigrated to the United States in the late 70s. And so, you know,

5:00
While living in this western culture really shifted her so she was about 1718. When she came here,

5:12
it took some time to, I think get influenced by all the incredible opportunities available to her. And she ended up

5:24
connecting with various healers and therapists, and realize that there was a way to move through these old patterns. So I think being exposed to a different culture that perhaps held different values, of course, Western culture at that time suppressed women's voices as well, but in a in a different way. Right. Right. Okay, so then

5:54
you wrote that book in 20? Oh, well, it was published in 2015. Right. That's, and then a few years later, you wrote a totally different book, The Science of Channeling. So what made you as they say, nowadays, pivot? What made you change from, you know, working on this historical biographical book, to the science of channeling.

6:23
So the shift in my life from that 2015, to when I published this book was quite dramatic in that, you know, I'm clinically trained as a naturopathic physician, I got research training with my master and clinical research, I was engaged in meditation, clinical research, I wasn't in private practice anymore. I was at Oregon Health and Science University, very deeply involved in how meditation improves people's quality of life. And a friend of mine who knew the work that I did, said, You really need to go to this meeting at the Institute of Noetic Sciences.

7:10
They were gathering expert meditation researchers to talk about

7:18
what's missing in the meditation research field in the West. And I said, Oh, that sounds really fun. I'd love to go. So I was able to receive an invitation and went to

7:31
the Institute of Noetic Sciences or ions, which I'd never really heard about before. And I was just completely amazed at the courage, they had to ask these esoteric research questions, to do rigorous research on these

7:49
trailblazing topics, if you will, and got excited to join the team. So that triggered a number of synchronistic events for me to end up working at ions first as a consultant, and then scientist and now director. So that gave me permission to think about and explore these topics of channeling. And I'll describe what I mean by that in a moment. So what you don't know with through that background that I just shared with you is that

8:27
at 10 years old, I went to my first seance like experience at my grandparents house. Oh, and

8:36
I, my mother is a trance. Channeler my grandmother was my uncle was every member of my mother's side of the family has some type of channeling ability. And I kept all of that in the closet. I didn't talk about it. It wasn't included in my career. I, you know, it was taboo. Sure, more understood. So being at ions gave me permission to bring out this personal experience to the forefront and actually do research on it. So I started giving presentations about my research on channeling. And I was approached by one of our members who happened to be the founder of a publishing house, and he said, You should write a book on this. And I said, Oh, I don't know. He said, No, no, you should write a book on it. So that to long story to answer your question is how I ended up writing a book on the science of channeling. And so

9:42
I described channeling in a very broad way. So is this this

9:50
capacity that all humans have to access information and energy that's not limited by our conventional notions of time.

10:00
In space, so But beyond our five senses, and it can appear expressive, or receptive. And these experiences are quite varied. They exist on a spectrum from intuitive gut hunches. On one end, you know, just about, everyone can see they've experienced to trance channeling and mediumship on the more extreme end. And then we have things like dreams that come true, or getting mental impressions from someone else's mind in the middle. So there's quite a variety of what I call channeling. So I was very excited to tell the world how common these experiences are the research that already exists on them, you know, the results from the many studies that we've been working on channeling. And that was the foundation of the book, to talk about this science of channeling in the ion science of channeling research program, you said, you said before they were two types expressive and something else receptive, receptive, can you just tell me the difference, please.

11:20
So receptive is essentially gaining information that you may not normally know otherwise. So, you know, a simple example is, you know, let's say I'm standing there doing the dishes, and all of a sudden, you know, this image of my cousin in New York, comes to me, of them, you know, falling down the stairs. And then I get a call, oh, you know, cousin has fallen down the stairs. So that is a, that is an example of receptive channeling, because you receive this information without using your five senses without using traditional means.

12:04
And then expressive, is influencing physical world with our consciousness. So this is traditionally called Mind over matter, or psychokinesis. And there have been numerous studies demonstrating that our intention can affect the physical world, for example, so many studies have looked at the effect of positive healing intention on cells, on plants, on animals on humans. And there is growing evidence that there is some small healing effect when people direct their positive intention to these things.

12:52
So that's an example of expressing right, thank you. That's very clear. Very, very clear. So would that fall sort of into the general category of ESP? extrasensory perception? Yes. So ESP is another word in my mind for channeling.

13:12
But you prefer the words that people ascribe to this? It's, it's a bit of an issue, actually, I think because everyone has a different name and meaning for this excess human experience. That's actually sometimes very difficult to describe in words. So, you know, people keep coming up with different terms to try to explain.

13:39
Right? Well, I have, I've often had the experience of feeling that someone is looking, let's say from behind me is looking at me, I look back, and there's a person looking at me, right?

13:55
Yes, there's been a number of studies done on that by Rupert Sheldrake. It's called Remote staring. And they've actually done it in the laboratory, where they have video cameras, and one person could be in one room and the other person's in a completely different parts of the building, even using closed circuit TV. So the person stares at the other through this, you know, video monitor and the other person can tell it's quite fascinating. It is it is. So how do you how do you suggest people identify their own channeling skills?

14:37
I think it is one of the things you write about in your book, I believe, right? Yes, I think it is a process of self inquiry, to bring awareness to this phenomena exist and to set an intention to discover your own personal signature, if you will. So

15:00
We have also done quite a bit of work to develop an inventory that helps people evaluate  their own, what we call noetic signature know what it means inner wisdom. And we think of it as a signature because it is unique. Each person has their own unique expression of channeling. So we develop the noetic signature inventory, and have done quite a bit of work on validating it. And looking at the different characteristics that arise for people. We found 12 different characteristics that seem to show up when we look at the data from 1000s of people. And people can go to our website and actually take this inventory right now has 44 items, and discover how channeling shows up for them in their life. And if they're interested, explore that, and see if they can nurture the ones that they're strong in, or even the ones that they aren't strong in and see how it can be used to support them in their daily life.

16:16
So you mentioned that you have done quite a few studies.

16:21
That's right. So can you tell me about one or two that you feel are the strongest evidence that this is that this is scientifically valid?

16:36
So you mean that this experience

16:42
that there that actually,

16:45
it can be scientifically proven that people have this ability to channel? I see what you're saying. So the there's a few phenomenon that have the strongest evidence in, you know, the, this channeling field, if you will, one of them is called remote viewing, or clairvoyance. And some people don't like using those words interchangeably, but I think it's fine to. And this is where people can receive information from distant targets. So you know, let's say I'm sitting here, and I'm tasked with gaining information about a specific distance site. And I can tune in and I say, you know, there's water, there's a boat, you know, there's these many people in the boat, et cetera, I'm just giving some big sample. So there's a huge body of literature around that phenomenon, most famously, is the Stargate military program that was running by run by the US government for about two decades. And they had around 500, actionable

18:10
campaigns, if you will, based on information that they received through remote viewing. And since then, there have been a number of laboratory studies and also practical applications of remote viewing, demonstrating that it is real, a real phenomenon, like finding archaeological sites, or

18:40
you know, figuring out which way the stock market's going to move and making money off the stock market or sport bets, etc. I've even heard that some
 
18:52
police departments or other governmental agencies are secretly using remote viewers to gain information about missing person cases, and a few of those have been written up. So this is just one area. There's also quite a bit of research that's been done on telepathy are mental impressions from other people, like telepathy

19:19
while people are asleep, so during dreams, and

19:27
also free cognition, or knowing the future, there's a great paper by Axel Cardinia. That was in the American psychologist believers in 2018. And it's a really nice assessable review of the best evidence for each of these categories. Now, some skeptics might say, oh, you know, it's showing just very tiny effects and it's not replicable and

19:58
and yet it's

20:00
been replicated in many different studies around the world, many of these, it is true that the effects are small, but they're not zero as we would expect them to be. And, you know, I would charge you with trying to find any scientific arena where every single study is positive. You know, there's always a

20:26
variety of results. And you just look at them all together to see what the general trend is. I do try to stay away from the word proved,

20:39
or definitively proved. I wouldn't agree with that. And yet, I would say that there is growing evidence that the that many of these are verifiable phenomenon, objectively verifiable phenomenon, separate from that they're experienced by the majority of humanity. So regardless of whether we can prove them as real in quotes, I absolutely think that they are worth study.

21:17
Okay, you make a good case for that.

21:21
So, let's assume that that's correct. How, how do you expect

21:29
that this will improve a person's life? Once they become more aware of their capacity for channeling? How would that make them happier, healthier?

21:45
So there have been numerous studies asking a similar question, you know, what is the benefit if there is one, for channeling and all the studies that I know about that have evaluated this have found positive findings increased meaning improved quality of life,

22:06
that people who channel or you know, high functioning, well adjusted, and are supported by their channeling experiences? One area that comes up over and over again, is around decision making, and being more easeful with making choices in one's life. In our world today, we're just bombarded with information. And it's sometimes it's hard to know what's real, what's not real, what's relevant to me. And there is a tendency to project our authority outside of ourselves and to look outside of ourselves, when we are trying to make decisions about our lives. And so channeling nurtures this innate inner wisdom about what's best for me best for my family, etc. So there's this greater ease and joy in life when you have this tool that supports you to make decisions.

23:22
And thinking

23:24
if, if that is the case,

23:29
why would channeling somehow increase your other sort of capacities like decision making, like physiologically speaking, that something happened in the brain that makes it work better when you channel

23:46
it's more about using it to make decisions. So let's say I'm faced with a decision.

23:57
I'm trying to come up with a with a simple choice, I can use a very easy choice around food. Okay, so sure. So some people are like, Okay, our bell peppers good for me. Like they've been a little funny for me. I don't know if it's good for me to have bell peppers, right.
 
24:16
You can go into a channel state

24:20
and ask, is it you know, good for me to have bell peppers and then you get a response a yes or no? And what people find is when they use channeling to make decisions, that and they follow that guidance that their life becomes more easeful less stressful, you have just used the new expression channel state.

24:50
You have not used that before. So tell me tell me what that means. So there is a practice to channeling if you want

25:00
ought to build your capacity to do it, it most often entails getting into an altered state of consciousness through various paths. We've done studies on this showing that, you know, people

25:17
often will use meditation, or they will use prayer, music, drumming, being in nature, there's, you know, so many different paths to get into this altered state.

25:33
quieting their mind, setting intentions, and then

25:39
and then they ask their questions, very simple to get into that channeling state to go inward with the intention to receive that inner guidance.

25:55
That makes a lot of sense. Thank you for that explanation. That's great. So

26:02
you said that for a long time, until you entered the world of Noetic, science, you kind of tapped you're channeling

26:14
a secret from the world. Right? That's right. So

26:21
now that you are free to speak about this, what sort of

26:28
what's what sort of blocks or obstacles Have you have you come across in terms of trying to put information about this out into the world?

26:48
24 hours?

26:51
Yeah, it is a mixed bag, there are a growing number of people who are interested in these topics. And, again, I can describe it on a spectrum. So you have people on one side who are have had personal experiences, they're just, they're clear, this is real. You don't need to convince me I don't even need to see the evidence, because I've had this experience. I know it. Right. So they're, they're the cheerleaders, if you will, yes, yes. And then the people in the middle, you know, are open and curious and may not be convinced one way or another. And that really tends to be our primary audience at ions.

27:41
You know, seeing studies are interesting to them and support their kind of own exploration, offering direct experience workshops and stuff, they really thrive on that. And that is where I think the greatest impact of this work is, is those people who are open and curious. Now, you go to the other extreme, which is the Die Hard skeptics who are not even healthfully skeptical, they are just completely entrenched in their worldview, that these phenomenon are impossible. And anyone doing that work is a fraud, or is a charlatan, or has a mental health condition, etc.

28:31
Those interactions are challenging, and unfortunately, they still happen.

28:39
We there was just an article that came out, you know, I think it was yesterday or the day before that was so negative and full of

28:52
not true statements, basically,

28:57
you know, misinformation, misinformation and negating ions and a specific project that it was working on. And it's, you know, it is disheartening to see those because they're just so blatantly

29:15
negative and mean.

29:18
But not, yeah, not really balanced. healthy skepticism, I think is great, but when it's done in a in a malicious discounting way, it's it's really frustrating. So I try not to put a lot of energy into those interactions or people at cetera, and focus on this middle group of people who are open and curious and willing to, you know, critically review the evidence that's out there and I'm curious if additional research questions that we can look at. So I

30:00
If you asked me, you know, how is it personally, it, it can be tiring.

30:07
But I focus on this other side, that gives me energy and motivation and support and,

30:16
you know, positive affirmation to just keep doing this work because I do find that people who are engaged in this are more compassionate, they are more inclusive, they are

30:35
see the interconnectedness of all of humanity. And all, you know, beings, even non humans on the world on the planet, that really need to work together to think of each other, to support all of us. So it is a much more I think, holistic attitude that supports people who are open and curious or engaged in this work, I think have a more holistic attitude about the world.

31:12
Right, right. Well, I can certainly identify with that, because I've written many books, as you may or may not know. And most of them have been sort of questioning the status quo of science.

31:26
So I'm well familiar with negative and hostile criticisms. Yes. And, and it hurts no matter, you know, no, no matter how often, you know, you have had positives, one negative comment can really get to you. Yes.

31:45
The negative seem to have more of an impact than the positives most of the time. But moving on. So speaking of our own feelings, if you could turn back the time, and talk to your 18 year old self, what would you what would you tell her?

32:13
I would invite her to

32:21
it's around confidence. And, you know, I think when I was 18, my confidence was building, but I was still

32:32
playing small, if you will. And I would try to support her and feeling a sense of safety, to play big. And she was supported and held and guided to be her filth, full self, without fear. And you know, you can just say that to someone. But it doesn't really affect them in any way. So if I could just impart the feeling of unconditional love and safety in fully expressing herself, that would be the gift I would want to give.

33:24
In terms of gifts that you want to give,

33:28
how

33:30
can you tell me about three of the most influential people in your life and how they have impacted your life?

33:39
Yes, it's great that you asked that question. I was reviewing your questions this morning with my family over breakfast, and I picked out one and I said, Oh, look, I'm doing this interview and asked me this question. How would you and to answer this, so it was a really fun table conversation. And it's so challenging for me to just pick three, but I will do my best to do so. Okay. One would be

34:10
clear newer of ACC, which means Oh, Cora de la community Castillo. And that was a group that I did workshops with

34:22
the last year of my undergrad, college career and it really opened me up in a major way. They have a number of different processing techniques, and it was essentially a personal growth path, if you will. And she has it had an incredible story of, of healing herself from cancer. And that was really inspiring to me and as a young woman, it just elevated my capacity to to be my full self. How did she How did she do it?

34:58
Through intention and visualize

35:00
Asian.

35:01
Yeah, that's really profound. I think she did physical stuff as well like, cleanses and such. You know, remember the details of her treatment plan was actually a rare cancer of the eye.

35:16
They found that the tumor actually didn't go away completely. It was just completely encased and surrounded. So it couldn't grow anymore. So yeah, it was it was quite profound. Yes. Another person who is deeply affected me is Leslie temple, Thurston, who is one of my spiritual teachers for over 20 years now, at Coral light, which is a organization I've worked with for a long time, I did a spiritual warrior training,

35:52
teacher training, and those tools to process the layers of the ego really, profoundly affected my life in a positive way. And I'm deeply, deeply grateful for them.

36:10
And the last person I'm called to mention, and there's so many more, but is my aunt, my mother's sister. She used to babysit us when we were young. And as a young girl, I was so indecisive. I just was like, fully not in my body and didn't really know who I was. So when people would ask me a question, I say, I don't know, like, do you want this? Or no? Do you want to go here? I don't know. And I had gone to her house after school with my brother. I think I was about 10 or 11. And she said, Do you want a cookie? I said, I don't know. But she asked again. I said, I don't know. She asked again. I said, I don't know. And then she grabbed me. And she, you know, gently shook me. And she said, Do you want that cookie or not?

37:07
And I was like, yes, yes, I want to go.

37:12
But that shaking me woke me up in a certain way that I think was very pivotal for me. So deep gratitude to my aunt.

37:23
There's so many people who have influenced my life. And I'm so grateful for all of them.

37:31
What is what is the best advice you ever got from anybody?

37:38
Oh, wow.

37:47
Think it was about this path, this inward path.

37:55
To not look outside myself for the truth for me.

38:01
That, of course, we can use our cognitive function and gather facts and make our lists of pros and cons.

38:09
But that that's not the sole way to guide our journey. And that the wisdom of our intuition of our innate wisdom is so important. And my

38:31
intention of strengthening that has validly impacted my life in a positive way.

38:40
And that a message of doing that came in from that advice, if you will, came in from so many different avenues, and very grateful that I hated it.

38:52
Are you still practicing naturopathic medicine? Do you still see patients? I do not see patients my research is full time and then some.

39:04
So what's next in line for you? Are you working on another book, another project what's in the future?

39:12
I'm very inspired by the noetic signature inventory. I have a book proposal ready and looking for some publishers for that book. And getting that out into the world. I think it's an incredibly empowering model for people and continuing to work from this place of leadership at ions and beyond. To create safe networks where scientists researchers experiencers can come out of the closet if you will, to share about their own experiences to feel safe researching it. That is my excitement and MIT personal

40:00
Mission, if you will, to

40:03
create a safe container for us to continue exploring these very exciting and important topics.

40:14
Sounds very interesting.

40:16
Yes, I'll also mentioned that ions is doing an incredible program right now that unconsciousness. And one of our board members, Linda G. O'Brien, very generously donated to a consciousness research program. And the first year of that right now is around testable theories of consciousness. And when I say consciousness, it's not whether we're awake or asleep. It's all about this non local consciousness that allows these things that I've been speaking about to be possible. So we just received our 10 finalist applications today. And we'll be announcing the winner who wins $100,000 prize on June 24. So stay tuned for the invitation to attend that publicly public online event. Okay, good. Sounds very, very good. So finally, before I let you go, one question,

41:25
what does being human mean to you?

41:30
Being human means being in this incredibly magnificent, awesome body that moves around this gorgeous planet full of diversity and

41:50
excitement and adventure, and learning how to be in a heart centered, loving place, within myself towards myself and towards everything else on the planet in my experience of joy, as I moved through my life.

42:18
Well,

42:21
it certainly sounds as if you have lived a very, very exciting and rewarding life. And

42:33
I think that you are giving humanity a lot of tools to work with, this is all for the good. I very much admire the work that you do. And many of the people at the Noetic Sciences Institute. I'm a great fan of many of the people there and now I add you to my fan list. So thank you for taking the time to, to converse with me. 
IONS websitr is 
And I just want to say that next week, and I'm just looking at my notes here. Next week, I will have Dr. Natalie Dyer, PhD, research scientist with Connor Whole Health at University Hospitals and president of the Center for IQ research. So I think very much in line with your thinking.

43:28
And so, if you have the time,
43:33
please tune in next week to my podcast. And in the meantime, take good care of yourself. And thanks again for being on the program. Thank you so much, Thomas. I would just invite you and the listeners to check out our website. We have all our presentations on there, including ones on the Reiki studies that we've done. Good, good and  your website once again, 
https://noetic.org/
Excellent. Thank you, and until we meet again. Take good care. Bye